CLOSURES go too far!!

BoneCrazy 221 posts Aug 28, 2010 10:11 PM	Ya..some roads need to be closed but to lock up big chunks of traditional areas is wrong. I have nothing against walking into an area but some of these closures are ridiculous. It forces locals to not hunt some areas at all and increases the pressure in other areas. Did we get any voice on this issue? Was it fairly advertised? It almost seems like they want to entrap hunters. The Closures (trenches and fallen trees) have caused more environmental damage than the wheelers ever would. Why do cattle have more rights than the citizens. They also do much more damage. Why can loggers go into areas and extemely trash the land? Why are horse trails legit when wheelers do less damage? Nothing against Cowboys. I love the PBR but quad organizations are some of the most environmentally proactive groups out there. I also think it is discrimination to lock out older folks who can't hike from seeing the land and wildlife that I thought belonged to "We the People" not just the few & privilaged.
Ridge Runner 413 posts Aug 29, 2010 9:38 AM	Dont know your situation or where your talking about. This is a tough subject and many tread on both sides of the fence.. I ran into a few old guys a few years ago in the bottom of a canyon on a new atv trail, they talked of the old days when they would walk the 3 mile long canyon to the road below and see 20+ bucks just on that hike, now there is a road,and very few deer. So who is missing out we who now have the roads to use or they who hiked and were able to see the animals away from the roads?. They couldnt hike it now if they wanted because of age but even they cant belive the great hunting canyon is now ruined because someone thought it was a good idea to have a road there. Like I said many walk on both sides of the fence including me, trust me I like roads but there are so many areas where you cant get more then three miles from a road. I want to play for tha NBA but cant dunk the ball, should they lower the hoop because I want to play???
BoneCrazy 222 posts Aug 29, 2010 8:01 PM	I agree with what you say...to a degree that is. We all can't play in the NBA but we all are citizens!! I just want some participation by the locals instead of some imported Forest employee making all the decisions.
Cove Mt 1 post Sep 01, 2010 7:02 PM	They have trashed Cove Mountain with trenches, cut down trees, closed areas that have been open for 100 plus years. Doesn't make sense to burdon habitat in some areas and increase traffic with atv & big rigs into smaller areas making safety a big issue.
Goofy Elks Dad 8 posts Sep 03, 2010 5:37 PM	This one gets my blood boiling.. It all started with me when the feds took the Paunsaugunt and did the Stair Case BS.. And I agree, Old logging road and illegal ATV trails should be closed,, But when I see 100 year old FS and BLM roads closing,,I'm pissed!
OutLaw 33 posts Sep 05, 2010 10:03 PM	close them all and learn to hike it wont kill ya
Goofy Elks Dad 9 posts Sep 06, 2010 9:38 AM	Outlaw,,,If they would have went with the original plan on the stair case, you couldnt have road a horse across it in a WEEK! There are other areas being considered for closers just as dramatic,The Swell, San Juan and The Bookcliffs are all areas that if The FEDs "closed them all" no one would ever see.. Don't care how great of hiker you are,,Its impossible!
DIY 437 posts Sep 06, 2010 5:41 PM	Outlaw, don't be so damn ignorant. Wait til you are too old to hike all over the mountain, or if you have a disability, or a 2 year old son you would like to take with you. It isn't as simple as "learning to hike". ---------- TRADITIONAL ONLY>>>-------->
Buglebutt 424 posts Sep 06, 2010 6:09 PM	+1 DIY
hornhiker1 34 posts Sep 08, 2010 8:17 PM	BC what part of UT are you talking about? The closures I have seen on the Dutton are done with boulders and some trees and were mostly short roads or roads that had an other road going to the exact same spot. Honestly I thought that it looked good, but not sure we're talkin about the same spot. I noticed that they were also cleaning ditches/drains and blading roads; not to say the road was not washed-board. At some point walking sucks but you guy have to admit that wheelers have changed hunting. A lot of old timers that ride them but hate what they have done to hunting. I hope my kids still have a place to hunt, even if I am too lof to go with. As much as that suck to say, it is the truth of life.
antler_man01 327 posts Sep 08, 2010 8:39 PM	Closing off a huge chunk which people have hunted there for 30+ plus years and now aren’t able to get there is a big NO NO! I’m thinking they should make unit’s bow only to help out!
Cove Mt 3 posts Sep 09, 2010 3:54 PM	hornhiker1...Cove Mountain has like huge crater holes dug out along with the other stuff. Really messy work. I don't mind closures but 100Plus year old roads that are the only access into an area is something else. I too am worried about the hunting. The deer left when the Elk arrived. Or it was poorly managed by the DWR...not sure which?
DJD 9 posts Sep 09, 2010 7:31 PM	@BoneCrazy When Cattle and Horses start doing more damage to the environment than ATV's maybe I'll listen to what you have to say! Get real dude! I don't agree with big acre land closures, but we don't need so many trails. I ride ATVs and love doing it, but I personally think there are too many ATV trails. Our mountains need more secluded spots for the deer and elk so that hunters have less access to their habitat. Heaven forbid you should have to get off your butt and hike a little! If you can't hike get a horse, but don't tell me horses do more damage than an atv. That is just plain stupidity. Maybe you should get out more.
hornhiker1 35 posts Sep 09, 2010 7:31 PM	Could be all of the above. Cove MT down by St George? Or Monroe. Not sure I know where it is your talking about, but either way big craters are ugly. HH1
DJD 10 posts Sep 09, 2010 7:37 PM	Oh, and by the way, those loggers are improving the habitat for the deer and elk. If you knew anything about proper land management you would know that. How much feed for livestock and wildlife do you see in those thick, overgrown, forests. Just wait a year or two and see where the deer and elk hang out.
Cove Mt 4 posts Sep 10, 2010 6:44 PM	Sounds like DJD is the one who needs to get out and hike a little. Must be a Forest employee defending their practices. I'll show you some ugly logging and some ugly cow mess.
DJD 12 posts Sep 11, 2010 12:08 AM	Cove Mt Believe me, I have covered plenty of Cove and Monroe and I know the area your talking about, and I don't work for the Forest Service. I wish they didn't tear up the ground so much to close those trails. But the fact is that if they don't do that, and they just put up a sign, morons keep riding there anyway. And sure sometimes the cattle hang out a little too much in one spot, but it isn't worse than some drunk redneck tearing 12" deep ruts through the meadows next to Big Lake or Manning. No horse or cow will ever do that! And that logging that is going on by Brindley Dairy on Monroe is a good thing. Sure it looks tough now, but in a few years the Aspens will be growing back and there will be tons of grass and forbs for the deer and elk. It will be better in the long run. And if you have ever been up there during the statewide archery hunt, you know what I mean about there being too many trails. All the road hunting losers driving up and down every trail 50 times. The dust gets to be 4 inches deep! And because they are too lazy to get off their atv and actually hunt, they shoot at the two points that are too inexperienced to know they should run. Most of those road hunters are also too lazy to practice like they should, so they wound two or three bucks before they actually hit one good enough to kill it. I have watched it happen numerous times. It just ticks me off. Let me say again, I do not agree with big acre land closures, but if some of the ATV trails got thinned out, so that access was a little harder, I believe our poor deer herd might have a chance to grow some decent bucks. The elk would also benefit from it. I hope that makes sense to you. Last Edited on 11-Sep-2010 12:15 AM
Cove Mt 5 posts Sep 11, 2010 3:30 PM	DJD I agree with what you say. I'm also concerned with the atv traffic. I'm not sure if thats the reason we have lost our deer herd. That seems to be related to the Elk somehow. You may not remember this, but not so long ago you could see a Summer Buck herd out at Christensen Springs with 40plus numbers...a majority were nice bucks with a few monarchs.
DJD 13 posts Sep 11, 2010 5:34 PM	Yea, I remember that too, you could always bet on seeing some sweet bucks there. The deer numbers have really fallen away. It really does stink. From my studies of range and natural resource management, deer and elk shouldn't be competing for feed. Deer are browsers(which eat more forbs and shrubs) and elk are grazers(which eat more grass. From what I have learned deer herds are shrinking all over the west, and it is because of the loss of good Winter Range, either to fire, or development. The winter range out on Poverty used to have a bunch of big bucks back then as well, along with probably a thousand does and fawns. That was before the big fire that wiped out all the good winter feed. Now all you see are a couple two points breeding 100 or 200 does. They have been working hard at reseeding a lot of Poverty so that there will be better winter feed again. Hopefully it works. That darn cheat grass is bad stuff. I don't think that the bucks from Christensen Spring wintered on Poverty, but the Monroe Mtn. bucks sure did. I personally wouldn't mind seeing the Cove and Monroe go to a limited entry deer hunt. It think that could improve our deer herds in a huge way. It would limit hunting pressure, and give those young bucks a chance to grow a little. I would gladly wait 5 years for a chance to hunt decent bucks on our mountains again. Last Edited on 11-Sep-2010 5:36 PM
sirhuntsalot 10 posts Sep 23, 2010 2:34 PM	well lets look at the glass half full here we all know that the deer herds are flat out....$H!tty all over the state of utah does anybody think that some of these road closures might give the animals a little bit of a break or escape and maybe help things improve a little bit on the herds? i donno i've hunted in some wilderness areas in nevada the past 5 years riding horse back 10 miles one way to camp with no roads for tens of miles and the deer herds in these areas are unreal so i donno if that is the secret or if NDOW just knows what they are doin on the tag management but i think no matter what we all agree that somethin absolutely has to be done on our deer herds here in utah
DIY 453 posts Sep 23, 2010 6:57 PM	The deer herd is the way it is for a few different reason...1 the majority of us don't out out money for deer like we do for elk. That can't be disputed. Mule deer are fairly weak animals. They don't adapt to changing weather, and they need sufficient winter range. Utah's winters can be really bad coupled with hardly any winter range. The other is certain areas (Monroe) have been hunted to death, along with it's fair share of poachers. The last thing in my opinion are the predators. I think there are a lot more cats out there than the lion guys and dwr want to admit. They take a huge toll on the numbers. I drive Parleys and Provo Canyon daily... The numbers of animals dead on the side of the road is ridiculous! This thread kinda got high-jacked, so sorry. I think some road closures will help with the deer, but that is just a minor problem with our herd. Some guys are all for closing ALL the trails, some are the opposite. What we need to remember is that we are all in this together. If we allow certain groups to take our rights away, where will it stop? We need to stick together as sportsmen and start policing ourselves. ---------- TRADITIONAL ONLY>>>-------->